Haverim

Wednesday, August 16, 2006

AS IRON SHARPENS IRON....

This is one of my favorite pictures of Maddie and me. I know you are probably wondering why. It is a little blurry, you cannot see our faces and to your eyes it is likely nothing much to look at. When I look at this picture I see the same things you do, but the difference is that I remember the exact conversation we are having at that moment in time and that is why it is one of my favorite pictures. Maddie was in the CORE and I was her mentor. We had not been together too long at the time this picture was taken and we were just beginning to really open up to each other. So, what were we talking about? Well, to set the stage, I remember I was very nervous to have this particular conversation with Maddie. I had seen some things in her life that concerned me and I invited her out to the house that day to approach her in love and hold her accountable for the things I had been seeing. This was the first time I ever had to confront Maddie with something hard and I was afraid that she would not like me very much after this conversation. As her mentor, it was my responsibility to point out things that could get her off track in her walk with God. Not to judge her or condemn her, but through LOVE to show her the areas she needed to pray about and seek God in what He would have her do. This picture is a reflection of the responsibility every follower of Christ has; to hold each other accountable AND to be ALLOWED to be held accountable by our brothers and sisters. I look at this picture and remember the words that were said, the emotions and the discussion, but my fondest memory is Maddie’s response to this conversation. Her response was acknowledgement, agreement and repentance! When all was said and done, I was FLOORED that she was so responsive. There was no “but this” or “but that”, just “thank you Miss Vicki for pointing that out to me”. WOW! I think I learned more that day then Maddie did. She taught me how to listen, process, evaluate and take the appropriate action.

As I am exploring this new journey I am on, the journey outside of “organized church”, I have been excited about new possibilities, but also a little paranoid about unintentionally getting on a path I should not be on. This concern is one Steve and I do not take lightly, so I try to explore it often and talk to the Lord about it to see what He has to say. I am not a person who seeks to be disobedient. I am disobedient in many ways, but I long to be obedient and to follow the Lord, listening and obeying His commands. I want to be held accountable! So, that revelation got me thinking…In light of not being “in church”, am I being held accountable? After thinking about that for a minute I actually laughed out loud. Why does “being in church” have ANYTHING to do with being held accountable? How often have I thought that just because I am active in ministry, in Bible studies and in services each week I am surely being held accountable? Why did I think that way? We are only held accountable if we actively seek and allow ourselves to be held accountable. Going into a building each week, even several days each week, does not give you accountability. The scriptures say “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results” James 5:16. Just as Maddie humbled herself and listened to what I was saying, so we must humble ourselves to a trusted follower of Christ and ALLOW ourselves to be held accountable. Proverbs 27:17 as iron sharpens iron, a friend sharpens a friend. So, my friends, I am humbling myself and seeking your help in staying accountable for my actions. I want to have the attitude that Maddie had toward me of not being defensive or dismissing when someone loves me enough to point out an area where I am not right. I am not opening myself up to be beaten up and accused of every little thing by any person who has an opinion of me, but those who say they TRULY love me and have DEMONSTRATED that love to me, I invite you to partner with me in confession of sin and prayer. Thank you Maddie, for demonstrating this act of obedience. May we all learn from your example.

posted by Vicki at 10:46 PM

15 Comments:

  • You are iron to my iron, Vicki. We will sharpen each other as we continue to grow together toward the One who sharpens us all.

    By Blogger Susie, at Thu Aug 17, 01:42:00 AM  

  • That is one of the things I love about you most Susie, I know you won't let me slide on anything! I treasure that. Oh, and why are you up so late????

    By Blogger Vicki, at Thu Aug 17, 08:41:00 AM  

  • Just a bloggin'...

    By Blogger Susie, at Thu Aug 17, 08:48:00 AM  

  • Susie you have a problem. Today I am your iron. Get the blog monkey off your back...Wait what am I doing here? I'm supposed to be working. Funny thing my cell phone just rang as I was reading and I got all angry cause somebdoy was trying to interupt me whilst I was 'bloggin". Think I need to shed this monkey too

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at Thu Aug 17, 08:56:00 AM  

  • Is it 5 p.m. yet? I can't blog 'til then.....
    AAAGGHH,
    Vicki ~ great post, and I keep coming to the same realization, if I can't do it outside the walls, institution, is it something I am truly capable of doing at all? I can't help but wonder what Paul did while he was in jail? Who kept him accountable? What happens when churches and bibles are outlawed? How will we be accountable if the only way is at a church building? I can't blame the church institution that we become that way, but we must strive to not allow ourselves to become needy of the church walls and the church walls becoming our Lord.

    By Blogger Michelle, at Thu Aug 17, 09:31:00 AM  

  • One of the amazing things about this journey for me is the discovery of all the facets of my spiritual growth that I didn't even know I depended on the church to be responsible for. No one in the churches I was a part of held me accountable - but the close friend that God brought into my life (through the church acquaintance) has held me accountable. No one in the church made sure I prayed or read the Word or did basically anything to grow my relationship with God. Instead the focus was on seminary accomplishments, fulfilling my duties to the church, my tithe, and so on. Not the church's fault. Mine for learning to be a good, dumb, complacent sheep. Following, sometimes, the wrong shepherd instead of the one true Shepherd.

    For example, all of a sudden I have to take true responsibility for my children's spiritual growth and understanding of God. It's not AWANA's or Cross Culture's or Sunday School's job. I was told that so many times, that it was my responsibility. If so, why are these programs provided? To enhance their growth? How many parents, like me, were telling themselves they were doing a good job at raising Christian kids and the church was "helping"?

    Yesterday I was floating on a boogey board with my 2 daughters and someone posed the question, "Do you think if Jesus was boogey boarding He would make really good waves come for himself?" What ended up happening over the next 30 minutes was an impromptu discussion about the character of Jesus and ways that He would reach people today. It was awesome! And it wasn't a classroom with the goal being Bible knowledge. It was just life, talking about someone who we all want to get to know better and learn to be like.

    Anyway, this is a very long comment, but you inspired me, Vicki. It's an amazing world out here. And we've only just begun to discover all that God has been waiting for us to explore!

    By Blogger Brian, at Thu Aug 17, 09:58:00 AM  

  • Gosh Brian, what you said is EXACTLT how I have been thinking these days. Mostly about how it is MY fault for allowing the church to be responsible for my growth and the growth of my family. I need to take responsibility! It is so easy to allow ourselves to think we are being "good Christians". Thanks for your thoughts, they are so right on!

    By Blogger Vicki, at Thu Aug 17, 10:02:00 AM  

  • I'm having to agree with you all...

    By Blogger Susie, at Thu Aug 17, 10:04:00 AM  

  • i'm here with all of you too...
    thanks vicki!
    i'm sitting before the spiritual food with the spoon in my hand (where it has ALWAYS been) and i am responsible for putting food in it, raising it to my mouth, taking a bite, chewing, swallowing. repeat. i feel like for so many years i plugged in the intravenous tube to the church and rarely raised the spoon for myself.

    By Blogger Richcrockett, at Thu Aug 17, 11:26:00 AM  

  • Hold it in....hold it in....breath deep....hold it in....oh, I can't!!! I can't do it!!!

    I could not agree more with the premise that we must each take responsibility for building our own relationship with Christ (and thank you, thank you, thank you, Vicki for sharing - it was a beautiful piece).

    Growing ourselves, growing our families, nurturing relationships, holding each other accountable, feasting on the right food - these are all human actions or interactions, not the actions of a building.

    The question I keep going back to is simply this: If the church is not doing these things, then is it the building or the people?

    Small groups, large groups, friendships, relationships - all are only as effective as the people involved. Meet in a house, meet in a church, meet in the park - the result is still only as effective as the people.

    All the people I know who've commented on this post (there's one who I don't know) are extremely gifted and talented leaders and worshippers. All have had a major impact on my own walk with Christ and I cannot begin to tell you how much they (you) mean to me.

    But, what if everyone like them disassociated themselves from the church and formed their own smaller group? Not because they were called, but because they were disgruntled and frustrated (not saying that's you at all).

    The new group would be phenomenally effective at all they seek, of that I'm sure. What a blessed place it would be to grow in!

    But, what of those left behind? Who will point them in the right direction? Who will show them it's not the building that saves them? Who will show them they need to start feeding themselves and each other?

    Please don't hear me wrong. People are also responsible for following where God leads them. This is not me telling anyone to go or to stay or to do the shuffle (do do do d-do d-do do do).

    I don't mean to be preachy among all the wonderful thoughts on this post.

    I guess I'm trying to say that I feel the strength of relationships you all speak of can coexist with the unity of the body at large. I find the two co-dependent of each other.

    My own family has been strengthened by the relationships formed in a small group that has lasted over three years - a group formed right out of our church.

    Anyway, that's all I had to say. Dealing with people on any level can be frustrating. I just feel we can't forget those left in the pews. Their souls are just as important to God as those who've yet to meet Him.

    By Blogger Laurence, at Thu Aug 17, 11:07:00 PM  

  • You are absolutely right Laurence, this is not completely the fault of the church, it is the fault of the individual. As a disclaimer I will say this has nothing to do with WHY I am not in church, it is just an observation I have made in myself lately. I think what I am trying to say is that I justified to myself that because I was so involved in church I was acutally being held accountable, when that was not always true. There were significant amounts of time in my life the past 9 years where I had nobody holding me accountable, I thought I was good because I was in Experiencing God and I was a youth worker. It was all on a subconsious level, but deep down I justified it away. I definitely depended heavily on the church to grow my kids. It was not until I grew closer to Joseph and met Susie that I really got true accountability. It did not come from the church, it came out of relationships I built in the church.

    Another issue of importance here is ALLOWING ourselves to be held accountable. We can pick an accountability partner who we know will let us slide on things. There is no iron sharpening iron there! That is why I love that Susie is my accountability partner because she WILL NOT let anything slide. Why? Because she truly loves me and wants to see me grow.

    I think the area the church may have helped this type of attitude along is that, as a whole, they TALK about accountability, but they do not push for ACTION. I know I was guilty of this! Because it is so easy to allow the institution to be a crutch in this area, leaders need to first DEMONSTRATE accountability and then hold the people they are leading accountable for getting an accountability partner that will TRULY hold them accountable. No issue in the church is the "institutions" fault, that responsibility lies within the people, the real church.

    During this time on my journey I completely relate with Brain's comment. Duirng this time away from the church I am seeing where I have used the church as a crutch. I WAS one of those leaders who poured into the church, who trained people and tried to lead them toward a solid life in Christ and look how messed up I am right now! It has taken me pulling away from the institution to see how truly messed up I am. I don't think I would have seen these things if I was still there. Maybe that is why I am here now. God knows how heavily I leaned on the institution and NOT ON HIM!

    Laurence, I am in agreement with you. The people left in the pews need strong leadership and the Lord has left you and others there for that purpose. What awesome leaders they have in you and Begona! Some of us are just in a different place. I cannot speak for them, only me. The Lord needs to work on me a bit right now, away from FBC. Will He lead us back there someday? I don't know, maybe He will and maybe He won't. This is not about who stays and who goes, but the journey we are all on. Our only question needs to be "where do you want me RIGHT NOW Lord?". Regardless of all that is going on, I love the Maier family! Nothing will change that. If you have further questions for me or insights you want to share, PLEASE call me. I would love to hear from you. Like I said, I WANT to be held accountable and for people to show me insights they have. So, please call if you want to chat more. Love ya tons!!!

    By Blogger Vicki, at Fri Aug 18, 09:35:00 AM  

  • So now we move over here, eh Laurence? :)

    I'm only answering for 2 reasons: 1) I can't hold it in either; and 2) I keep hoping you'll hear what I'm saying the way I intend it. Maybe this time...?

    You keep coming back to the same question: "If the church is not doing these things, then is it the building or the people?"

    Here's my answer, for what it's worth. The building has very little to do with what's being done in it. The only way the building itself influences people would be by the atmosphere, decor, pews, stage, etc. So in some ways, the way that people have set up the church buildings over the past centuries definitely influences what's going on inside them. For instance, as long as there are people on a stage in front of others sitting in the seats provided, there will be a natural tendency for those on stage to be seen as the leaders, the 'more-skilled', the 'gifted', the ones we should listen to and follow if we want to know how it's done. So right off the bat, before a word is said or a note is played, the stage people have been presented as superior to the sitting people. Do you see where I'm going with this?

    People who love to sing but don't feel they're as qualified or talented as those on stage will naturally begin to explore other expressions for their worship. But the church structure provides ministries to do this. How many of these ministries actually deal with the people in the community, meeting them where they are? Most of them are good, helpful ministries (recovery, bread ministry, etc.) but every single one of them is built on the same model as the church that birthed it: come to us, and we will serve you. It works, to a point. But the real point is, that's not what our true Shepherd exampled, is it?

    "Go ye therefore and make disciples..."

    GO.

    I believe that Jesus was and is saying that at the very core of what the organized church does there is a come mentality that is so deceitfully pervasive in every way. It is not impossible to overcome, but at what point to we stop trying to feed the machine of the organization and begin feeding the sheep, as Jesus commanded?

    Church is a good place to start, I think. Where would I be without it? Or you, or Candace, or anyone we know who has a relationship with Jesus? But the major fault of the people who have continued to make every effort to preserve the institution and the way things are done (except updating the music, or using technology to seem more contemporary, which honestly is just window dressing that doesn't disguise well) is that most churches want you to stay there. Not out of some evil plot to keep you from growing in your relationship with Jesus, but if you grow up and out of the church, who will keep it going? Who will pay the salaries? Who will pay the mortgage? Who will 'feed the sheep'?

    Wait a minute...are the 'sheep' only those who show up on Sunday? What about the other 90% of Vacaville?

    I love how you said your "own family has been strengthened by the relationships formed in a small group that has lasted over three years - a group formed right out of our church."

    Yeah, you said it. Out of your church. OUT.

    What's wrong with the picture if the REAL growth of the followers of Jesus happens outside of the place that bears His name?

    I'm not saying run away from the church. Someone probably does need to stay and try to help it become what God intended. Unless it is so deeply rooted in what it thinks it's supposed to be that it will refuse and discard anyone who threatens it's stability.

    My wife and I tried for 5+ years. You really have no idea. You have seen just a glimpse of my struggle and the struggle of others to bring these things to light and into open discussion. I finally got exhausted with beating my head against a wall, and at the same time God gave me a message that stated exactly what we're talking about. I shared my heart, my passion, and what I believe God wanted His church to hear. 2 days later I was discarded.

    What's sad is that my story is not the exception. Look around. Talk to other pastors. In the last 2 days I've met 2 here in Hawaii who have VERY similar stories. And they're STILL trying to make a go of it in the organized church. I will be meeting and praying with and for them. I'm not against the church. I'm against the prostitution of it. It's Jesus' bride.

    Look at the BattleCry statistics. If the way we are doing church works so well, why are we heading toward 4%??? Is it possible that the organized church as it stands today needs to be discarded so that the true church like we've never known since Jesus walked the earth can finally live, without competition from its inferior substitute? I don't know, but I think it's possible.

    I pray for those who will take on this cause, which I believe is the cause of Christ. I believe that you and I are on the same side. I am confused by the fact that every time I confess my own failures within the context of the church it is perceived as an attack on the church. I'm just trying to learn, to heal, to join with others who want to be the church God desires. I'm not out to tear things down, unless they need to be. I'm definitely not out to be abused and attacked by the very same people I was called to serve (not you, Laurence, but oh so many others who have gone out of their way to either ignore my family or to be ugly and abusive - even this week! How Christ-like!)

    Who will be discarded by 'the church' next? Or will the true church, the people who look and act like Jesus, arise and discard the institution and love the people in and outside of it?

    By Blogger Brian, at Fri Aug 18, 10:19:00 AM  

  • Vicki, I love your passion and heart. This post sparked something within me. I realized, with all these people I admire and respect and love on this site, it's okay to share and learn from each other. Nobody here has to agree with me. We all just need to follow Christ, however that looks for each of us.

    I keep thinking how spectacular it would be if we could take the same passion for relationships I see in the people here and somehow transfuse it into the body of Christ as a whole!!

    The larger church cries out for pockets - small communities - within it to truly build and grow each other. It's hard to be transparent and real with 1,200 people at once. But, in a smaller tightly woven group of people, there are limitless possibilities.

    The plan is forming in my mind. I just wonder how to get there.

    By Blogger Laurence, at Fri Aug 18, 11:55:00 PM  

  • Thank you Laurence for being bold enough to question and throw things out. Label it "pot sirrer" if you want, but I know you and I know your heart. I hope there is a way to successfully do this in the body as a whole. I think we have tried, but only with minimal success. Let's keep plugging away it, together!!!

    By Blogger Vicki, at Sat Aug 19, 07:41:00 AM  

  • Hey I think we've reached some agreement. many small communities within one large community (body of Christ) work better than one large unorganized body.....victory!!!

    By Blogger Michelle, at Sat Aug 19, 09:20:00 AM  

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